INTERVIEW with ROBERT Di PASQUALE
The following is an interview with Robert Di Pasquale, Head Coach of Blacklords Fencing Club, conducted in November 2013. Blacklords Fencing Club was formed by Robert in 2000. Since that time, the Club has proven to be one of Australia’s premier foil clubs and in recent times has gained two new Level 1 coaches. Robert has the highest Level 3 as a coach and also possesses a Diploma of Fencing from the FIE.
Blacklords Fencing Club has been very successful in foil competition. What do you put that down to?
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The techniques that we use, I believe, are a little bit more modern in our training, and we are old fashioned when it comes to the hard work. |
I put it down to a combination of a couple of factors:
Hard work, obviously, with physical conditioning and training,
Talented athletes, which is quite a large proportion of our success, and
We have adopted a unique approach to the training as well. We don’t use conventional classical techniques, although we do initially start off with classical techniques. The techniques that we use, I believe, are a little bit more modern in our training, and we are old fashioned when it comes to the hard work.
So, you can put it down to probably three things -
Talented athletes;
Hard physical conditioning and training; and
A unique approach to the technical side.
Your Club appears to have a strong or complete focus on fencing with the foil. Why has the Club chosen to specialise in foil?
I am the Head coach of the Club and I decided to specialise in foil. I do not have anywhere near as much experience in the other two weapons, although I did compete with the other two weapons. I spend 95% of my time on foil. I know more about foil than I know about the other two weapons.
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We can either be average in three weapons or good in one particular weapon. As a result, in my opinion, we actually have done very well in foil. |
In this particular venue we are limited with time and space. We do not have this venue full time and it is rented for a fixed period of time so that I can only allocate a certain amount of time towards fencing. I chose to specialise in foil and so 95% of time is spent with this weapon. We can either be average in three weapons or good in one particular weapon. As a result, in my opinion, we actually have done very well in foil.
We are also doing well with the other weapons. Foil skills also transfer to epee and sabre in some ways. We have had more national epee champions than the other epee schools in Victoria. We have won National medals in all three weapons, and we currently have the Junior epee champion and have had so for a number of years
Is that because of the talent of the pool of athletes that you have?
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Over the last three years we have had the best athletes in foil in Australia. In foil, 95% of foil titles have come from this club. |
I am fortunate because, if I had lesser athletes, I don’t think the results would have been as high. Over the last three years we have had the best athletes in foil in Australia. In foil, 95% of foil titles have come from this club. We are talking only about Australian athletes, only one national title in the past 3 years has not gone to this club and that is in every age group. This year alone, we have picked up two of the three open competitions so far. The third was won by an Italian.
That success has been due to the fact that I have been lucky with the athletes that I have managed to bring into the Club.
What underpins a good athlete?
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And of course you must enjoy the sport and the ability to think outside the square, and this is what my athletes all have. They drive each other further and further. |
That is a hard question to answer.
Intelligence is a factor; an athletic ability is also a factor. and an ability to be able to think laterally.
They must have the drive to want to improve. And of course you must enjoy the sport and the ability to think outside the square, and this is what my athletes all have. They drive each other further and further.
With the athletes I have here at the moment, some have the ability to go to the absolute highest level with the right kind of guidance, and if they choose to do so, even to the Olympics. Next year, a number of our athletes will be going to the World Championships, which is the biggest event you can go to outside the Olympics.
Do fencers and coaches in Australia face specific problems in their endeavours to achieve success compared to say, in Europe?
European nations, Italy, for example, have money. There is more money involved in other countries than in Australia. In Australia its more pay your own way, and it makes it a challenge for athletes to have to pay for coaches, to pay for travel, entry fees. They pay for everything. There is more money in international countries.
What is the best approach towards marketing and promoting fencing in Australia?
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In my opinion, marketing and promotion is non-existent in Australia, and almost non-existent in the world. |
In my opinion, marketing and promotion is non-existent in Australia, and almost non-existent in the world. Fencing could be a lot bigger than it is. For example, I saw a good video for the last World Championships with a fencer carrying out different styles of sword fighting throughout the times right up to actually fighting a Jedi. It was an exciting video and we should do more things like this which makes people say I actually want to take up the sport. In Australia it is not promoted.
Promotion of fencing needs to take a leaf out of high profile sports in Australia, for example, Tennis is one of the most high profile individual sports in the world. Perhaps, get a sponsor, but you first need to get more interest.
In fencing it is an individual sport, still fighting as one on one. Use promotion like in Tennis and boxing. But everyone needs to be on the same page. The problem is we have conflict of personalities, conflict of ideas, conflict of interest, and In Australia that is a big issue.
What about the role of AFF in promoting fencing?
The AFF needs to show a greater leadership role. AFF is meant to look after Australian fencing overall, but they need to be a little bit more professional. In order to move forward we need an independent group of people who need to be paid. There is a need to spend money putting forward a media strategy. We can’t get volunteers to do it. We need to pay an independent professional group of people who know about marketing and promotion to put forward strategies and deliver on it. We are talking about a few million dollars here. It can’t be done with a few thousand dollars.
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Most people who get into fencing don’t want to get out. Once you get people in and they feel they are part of an elite sport, the job is done. |
Promotion of fencing through schools needs to be backed up by media and particularly with prime time television when kids come home from school. That way we can increase the profile of fencing and turn it into a main stream sport. Most people who get into fencing don’t want to get out. Once you get people in and they feel they are part of an elite sport, the job is done.
The other thing that needs to be done is that you have to get out of being an amateur fencing association and bring it up to a professional association. We must have athletes getting paid like in other sports such as tennis, then once this happens the sport becomes so much bigger and looks after itself. We must turn the few thousand fencers that we have in Australia into 100,000 or 200,000 fencers.
And that can’t be done by a coach, or a parent of an athlete, or an accountant. What you need are people who professionally know how to do it and then you stay out of their way. Don’t try to control them, because when you get people trying to control things who don’t know what they are doing, then it ends up being amateurish. Let the professional get on with it.
How do you rate the health of fencing in Australia?
On paper it is going forward and in theory it should be going forwards. Some of the ideas people came up with were kind of heading in the right direction, but it has now completely back flipped and it is not being handled properly. It could be a lot better than it is. I would not give it a very good score out of 10. I wouldn’t give it a very good score at all.
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Many of the people running the show are not consulting with the key stakeholders. They are not consulting the athletes, coaches or managers of the club. |
Many of the people running the show are not consulting with the key stakeholders. They are not consulting the athletes, coaches or managers of the club. Personally, I have not been consulted and I know of other coaches who have not been consulted. They need to get feedback. Clubs and coaches need to be looked after. And that is not happening. Making things harder for the clubs and coaches is the worst thing you can do for fencing.
If everything stays the same and nothing changes, what is the survival rate of fencing clubs likely to be in the future?
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If everything stays as it is, fencing will continue to stay exactly as it is now, and will remain as an amateurish sport in Australia; and you are going to have similar results forever. |
If everything stays as it is, fencing will continue to stay exactly as it is now, and will remain as an amateurish sport in Australia; and you are going to have similar results forever. If people are happy with that, then that is what it is. Many sports would be in a similar situation too. It is just not only fencing. You have got other sports where Australia doesn’t get the results. If we want to improve, the people who have put themselves into positions to make a difference need to start listening to other peoples’ ideas that have been around the sport for 20 or 30 years.
Do you think we can convince the federal government to put more money into fencing? Is that possible?
Yes and No.
Get something that looks good first and then ask the Federal Government for money.
If we go to government now, they will say, we gave you some money because we felt sorry for you, but why should we give you any more to put into what we see as a dead sport.
We need to spend money to get more money. We should allocate some money from competition events and put it into promotion, in my opinion, on prime time TV. Once that happens then you can go to the Government and show that fencing is a professional sport worthy of funding.
During your long period of participation in the sport of fencing, what have been some of the significant trends that have had an impact upon fencing in Australia?
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A couple of years ago, I had one of my athletes ranked number 1 in the national competition, but because he could not afford to pay the required amount of money he was not part of the AFT, which is wrong. |
The AFT (Australian Fencing Team) concept was one game-changer. To join the AFT you need to pay $5,000. Most people disagree with the concept of APT. The main reason why people disagree is that in the past it was the best people who went to championships. However, using the world championships as an example, you can now pay your way to get into the championships and you might not even be ranked in the top 10 in Australia and yet someone who is ranked number one won’t get in because they are not on the AFT. A couple of years ago, I had one of my athletes ranked number 1 in the national competition, but because he could not afford to pay the required amount of money he was not part of the AFT, which is wrong. And that can happen to anyone. The AFT must ensure that the best person goes to the World championships and to all competitions.
The AFT must ensure that the best person must be picked on results.
The idea of AFT was to make the sport more professional by people committing to certain requirement such as the amount of lessons per week, going to competitions and training, and there are certain elements of that that might sound as though it is going in the right direction. But what the AFT concept does is get rid of people who are naturally talented but can’t afford the money to get onto AFT. Instead, the money must go to training and training camps. For serious competition, the team must be picked on results.
One of the other changes that have occurred is the attempt to unite fencing as a whole in Australia through the implementation of national and assistant national coaches. This is not a bad thing, but it needs to be handled properly and in a way that people want to come on board. Coaches must have confidence or they will go their separate ways. Again coaches and clubs must be looked after if they want people to jump on board with programs.
What about positive trends?
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Many sports at the highest level have implemented a video system so why not have a fencing video system, which is highly important in fencing. |
No. I had some ideas which weren’t really listened to and I am sure other people have had the same ideas. But there is a lack of listening to people who know most about fencing, coaches and to the athletes because they know what is happening and it is what they do.
I had a suggestion that we should bring about a video system in Australia similar to what occurs at the Olympics and at the World championships with athletes contesting a referee’s decision through a video system. This is particularly important for foil and sabre. It helps both the referee and the athlete and makes things more professional. Referees don’t like to make mistakes. Many sports at the highest level have implemented a video system so why not have a fencing video system, which is highly important in fencing. If you think refereeing in tennis is difficult, fencing is far more difficult.
Finally, from what you have been saying, ‘communication’s is a vital key element?
Yes, but you have got to have the right people to do the job. You must have professional people who are paid. They don’t need to have a background in fencing. I know this requires a lot of money but this can be found through sponsorships and through competition entry fees and affiliations fees and then make sure, that we spend the money in the right way.
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Fencing in Australia could be as big as tennis if handled correctly. |
AFF’s agenda should be to make the sport of fencing as big as tennis. Fencing in Australia could be as big as tennis if handled correctly. We are talking about sword fencing! The sport of fencing is so good a concept and has so much future potential.