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BOOK REVIEW #1

Epee 2.0 – The Birth of the New Fencing Paradigm

Author: Johan Harmenberg

With Ruggero Ceci, Geoff Pingree and Bjorne Vaggo

170 pages

Published by SKA Swordplay Books

Epee 2.0 sets out in considerable detail the development and implementation of a modern fencing paradigm that remains bitterly controversial to this day, with some critics arguing that as a result classical fencing has disappeared.

The author, Johan Harmenberg, gave up on serious fencing because he believed he lacked the talent to fence classically. However, together with Eric Sollee, an innovative coach at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, Harmenberg and Sollee mapped out a new fencing paradigm based on what would be referred to as ‘the three conjectures’. Harmenberg put the New Paradigm into effect with a vengeance; winning the World Championship in Men’s Individual Epee in 1977 and the Olympic Gold Medal in 1980.

Epee 2.0 – The Birth of the New Fencing Paradigm tells his story, revealing the theory behind the new paradigm, his style and explains why his method neutralised the superior technique of the best classical fencers.

...the Soviets had moved away from classical fencing as early as the 1960’s...

Harmenberg asserts (as did his critics) that, as a result of the new paradigm, fencing would never be the same again. He states, ‘It was not my intention to make classical fencing obsolete but this was the unfortunate result.’ In his defence, it is noted that the Soviets had moved away from classical fencing as early as the 1960’s and that over time, the classical approach began to be tempered by the realities of sport fencing and also the fact that style points fell out of favour.

However, the author does stress the fact that ‘the new paradigm builds on the actions of the old one’ and that ‘the actions of classical fencing remain as valid as ever.’ The new paradigm seeks to simplify the lengthy dialogue of classical fencing. It seeks to forestall the “conversation” by making it as difficult as possible for an opponent to hit at all. The new approach employed speed and distance as its critical elements rather than relying solely on fencing talent. There is a separation of physically-based tactics from technique-based tactics.

The new approach employed speed and distance as its critical elements rather than relying solely on fencing talent.

The author observes that the model for combat was based more on Muhammad Ali than on Aldo Nadi, and that Ali’s phrase, ‘Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee” aptly summarised the author and his colleagues’ aspirations as fencers and underpins the theory and practice of the new dimension.

In summary, the new paradigm involves radical thinking in ensuring no blade, destructive parries, fencing that aims to steer the opponent into the fencer’s area of excellence. It involves considerable mobility, aiming to steer the fencing into a distance that is awkward for the opponent while providing opportunities for high point speed scoring by rapid arm extension movements.

...combat was based more on Muhammad Ali than on Aldo Nadi...

It is worth noting that whilst the book obviously focuses on epee fencing, foil and sabre fencers will also find much that will be of interest to them in terms of strategy and approach. The book both tells a personal story of improbable success and is also a manual of instruction. The book has not been written by one person only. It contains contributions by several fencers who add their fencing stories and contributions. Importantly, the book is an attempt to bridge the gap between theory and practice and describe as clearly as possible one epee fencing paradigm for winning.

Leaving to one side the personal stories, the book is not one that beginners should rely upon at this stage of their fencing endeavours. The author makes the observation that if you have fenced for less than five years you should still be concentrating on learning the wide variety of techniques that comprise classical fencing before actioning the advice and instruction for the new paradigm.

...foil and sabre fencers will also find much that will be of interest to them in terms of strategy and approach.

The new paradigm evolved out of discussions amongst Harmenberg and his colleagues regarding the possibility of designing a new fencing style based on speed and little blade contact. Classical fencing assumed that the fencer with superior technique would control the outcome, that the fencer who maintained the longer distance has the advantage, and that the key to victory laid in defeating the opponent’s best moves.

Eric Sollee and Johan Harmenberg, however, formulated what became known as the ‘Sollee Conjectures’ which proposed nothing less than standing the classical paradigm on its head.

Sollee’s Conjectures were as follows:

1. Is it possible for the fencer with the lower technical fencing ability to decide the technical level of a bout?

2. Can the fencer with the shorter fencing distance control the distance in a bout?

3. Is it possible to force your opponent into your own area of greatest strength?

The team began to experiment with the new possibilities and the book proceeds to explain in detail the new paradigm, showing its basis in theory, explaining how it works in practice and providing the means of adopting it and obviously answering the three conjectures Describing various elements of the new fencing paradigm required the creation of a new vocabulary and the book helpfully provides definitions and terminology right upfront in the book to assist in understanding the new fencing paradigm.

...the book is not one that beginners should rely upon at this stage of their fencing endeavours.

The author particularly stresses the focus on not getting hit and steering the opponent into a fencer’s own Areas of Excellence. In the new paradigm, this is viewed as the crucial discussion.

Outlined are such situations as ‘Olympic Touches’ where both fencers feel desperate to score the next hit and describes the strategy for handling these Olympic touches, such as fencing outside both fencers’ Area of Excellence (AoE), trying to defeat your opponent’s AoE, fencing inside your own AoE and detailing possible reactions by an opponent to your AoE.

The notion of ‘hidden prerequisites’ is discussed in that there is always a certain set of prerequisites from an opponent that make a particular scoring action possible. As a result it is more interesting for you to analyse your losses than wins. Steps are provided in the book as to the way to analyse your losses and turn them into learning experiences and later victories.

Amongst many interesting observations by the author is the comment that “It is appropriate to consider fencing bouts as being on a continuous sliding scale between technique-based and physically-based tactics. The endpoints of this scale are maximum technique-based tactics coinciding with minimum physical-based tactics with the primary intention of scoring hits, and maximum physically-based tactics coinciding with minimum technique-based tactics with the intention of avoiding being hit. Because of the major shift in world-class epee fencing over the last two decades, it is appropriate to call this sliding scale between the two described endpoints, the new fencing dimension.”

...it is more interesting for you to analyse your losses than wins.

In order to succeed within the new fencing dimension, the author indicates that the fencer needs to master certain tactics.

The tactics range through the following topics:

Steering

Destructive Parries

Confusing Parries

Controlling the Distance

Bouncing

Harmenberg proceeds to describe in a number of chapters the journey he takes (which was far from being a straight forward exercise) in order to maximise the reader’s understanding of the rather novel and complex thinking represented by the new fencing paradigm. For example, the reasoning behind the bouncing concept and the strategic uses it enabled, provides for interesting reading. Indeed, apart from the technical aspects, the book’s merit is enhanced by the ‘behind the scenes’ understanding of how the various components of the new paradigm were arrived at and adds a more complete understanding of the new dimension.

It is appropriate to consider fencing bouts as being on a continuous sliding scale between technique-based and physically-based tactics.

Of particular interest in considering technique and strategy is the section by the author on the emphasis in the speed of the weapon arm extension and the way a point approaches the opponent and scores. The author describes point hit speed and the ‘critical’ gap and also models the concept in easily understood mathematical terms.

Harmenberg also elaborates on his personal approach, dealing with such diverse issues as cheating, mental attitude to match situations, tactical considerations and peaking for a critical competition. However, you should be forewarned that when reading Harmenberg’s demanding program for reaching peak performance it will ‘exhaust’ you just reading about it, let alone even thinking of doing it. ‘Commitment’ is a word that Johan Harmenberg clearly takes very seriously.

...the concepts explained in the book promote and reinforce continuing evolution in the sport of fencing.

Harmenberg does not suggest that we must change the way fencing is taught, at least not at first. He sees the new paradigm as a logical continuation of classical fencing and that all of the skills required for fencing in the manner of the new paradigm do need to be trained separately, with the assistance of a coach who can take into account a fencer’s individual traits.

There is also an interesting appendix that emphasises and encourages the need to expand scientific knowledge and literature in the area of predictions of fencing success, given that there is very little scientific literature available, particularly when compared with other sports.

In formulating and implementing the new paradigm in fencing, Harmenberg and his colleagues have been criticised (and in turn acknowledge the criticisms) that they destroyed the virtues and ideals of classical fencing. Clearly, there will continue to be debate and contention as to whether or not the new paradigm is an important enhancement to the sport and to the expertise of fencing technique and tactics. However, irrespective of which side one might take in such a debate, the concepts explained in the book promote and reinforce continuing evolution in the sport of fencing.

The author has written a book that is a compilation of ideas that ultimately formed the new paradigm. In discussing his personal journey there is a refreshing honesty in his approach and assessment. He sees his book as simply a first step in describing the present fencing paradigm and hopes that others will continue to contribute to its development.

One of the more important observations by the author is that “this new fencing dimension gives us the intellectual tool to understand the outcome of fencing bouts and also recommends remedies for losses.” Whether you agree or disagree with the underlying concepts of the new paradigm, this book does stretch your imagination and your desire to analyse and critically appraise your own fencing techniques and tactics in a bout. That in itself makes this book a well worthwhile read.

...should be regarded as a welcome addition in any coach or fencer’s library.

Johan Harmenberg believes his book is a bit too black and white for his own taste (particularly as he is a scientist) but felt the need to write the book in the style he has, to present the concept as clearly as possible. To his credit, he has achieved his objective. This is an eminently readable, instructive and informative book. It should be regarded as a welcome addition in any coach or fencer’s library.

FencingTalk

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INTERVIEW WITH MAITRE D’ARMES NEIL HICK

Personal profile

Neil Hick started fencing when he was about 10 years of age and fenced as a junior for a number of years. Neil was awarded a scholarship to America and fenced in America for five years before coming back to Australia. Having fenced in both national and international competitions Neil commenced coaching and has done so continuously over the past 30 years. Neil has had the opportunity to take junior and senior team teams interstate and overseas. He completed his Level 3 coaching course and took senior and junior Modern Pentathlon teams overseas. That experience resulted in Neil managing the Modern Pentathlon Team at the 2012 London Olympics Games. Neil was the National Team Manager from 2001 until 2004 and again from 2010 until 2012.

As Neil so succinctly puts it “the sport of fencing never ceases to amaze me and I am still learning and still enjoying fencing”.

What have been some of the significant trends and highlights in Australian fencing?

Have to understand I started fencing 45 years ago, so there have been some major changes over that period of time.

But the ones I see that are interesting and the first one that is quite good is the move from people competing at an international level in multi weapons to focusing on a single weapon. This is something we should have done a long time ago. In the past, I competed in all three weapons to give myself more competition, on reflection I do not believe this was the right thing to do.

Now you get people who train only in one weapon and compete only in one weapon and so now become specialists which, I think, as a small country we need to do. You can’t have good athletes trying to compete in all 3 weapons. It just doesn’t happen. You need to focus on one weapon. They go to Europe and they train and compete in one weapon and with one coach.

Early on they might try all three. We have people in international standard competing in more than one weapon. It is being ‘Jack of all Trades, Master of None’. How can you fence one day in foil and then compete the next day at international level in epee. It is not the same at all. You can’t be fantastic in all 3 weapons. You need to focus on one and improve your chances of getting a good result.

the sport of fencing never ceases to amaze me and I am still learning and still enjoying fencing.

Secondly, I have seen the AFT come in, and that obviously is an attempt to make people more professional. That is quite a controversial issue, which I am not going to go into too much; people going into international competitions because they are in the AFT rather than because they are at a certain standard concerns me.

The third thing I have seen is the rise of fencing in this area of the world. That’s a major change. Look at China and Asian fencing. Look at the Asian Championships, where you have got Hong Kong and Singapore putting major amounts of money and athletes into fencing. Years ago they were quite easy to beat. Now they are powerhouses. Singapore, as an example, has made a financial commitment to fencing. They are a small island country and they are expecting international results.

China is winning gold medals in the Olympics and world championships now. Korea, Japan weren’t big into fencing a number of years ago and they are now winning world titles and Olympic medals and the Asia region as a political and fencing area are becoming increasingly important. Beijing Olympics was a real test for Asian fencing. We now see the benefits

Why hasn’t fencing in Australia been given a similar profile to that in Asia?

Why hasn’t fencing in Australia been given the same profile as in Asia, is because Australia already has its high profile sports. We have our swimming, equestrian, rowing and that is where we put our limited resources into.

You get a powerhouse like China. It has millions of people; it is a machine. It has been a machine for years in terms of gymnastics, but now they are spreading out to all sports because politically it increases their profile.

And we are not only talking China, There is also Thailand, Korea.

It also goes back to their cultural roots, because they are a martial arts culture and fencing is not that far away. It is a sport that needs equipment, technology and money is not a problem for Asia. From Asia’s perspective, it is also seen as a high profile sport in Europe.

Australia has limited resources and so we need to be very careful where we put those resources. The question is, do we spread those out or do we focus them in one area, whatever that area is.

There are perhaps other trends, but I think the ones I have referred to have shaped the past few years in fencing. We have seen an increase in fencing in schools, but will touch on that later.

What is your view of the ‘health’ of fencing in Australia?

I think the health of fencing in Australia hasn’t changed that much. The other sports and countries are improving and if you are not going forward, then you are going backwards.

The other sports and countries are improving and if you are not going forward, then you are going backwards.

I think having the facilities that we have here in North Melbourne is a massive improvement. We have a home and we have an identity and that is a big step forward. Fencing needs a home and I don’t know of any major sport that does not have some sort of home or base. So that when you speak to people and say that is our training centre or high performance centre and it is a physical building that we have sole access and tenancy to, that is an important statement. A lot of people put in a lot of work to get a permanent venue, and this is a quality venue. You go overseas and you see some of the fencing clubs around the world and it is very similar to this.

We need to also keep pushing forward. The focus on where we spend our time and money is the issue – we have limited funds and resources and we need to examine how do we distribute those…..and I don’t think I have an answer. And many people have differing views and opinions as to where funds and resources should go.

We need to also keep pushing forward. The focus on where we spend our time and money is the issue – we have limited funds and resources

We need money. We are not going to get corporate dollars because we don’t have the profile to make it worthwhile for corporate sponsors. Government and community funding is available and we should tap into it. For example, we have a growing aged population and there is funding available for such specific groups. Our growing veteran fencing community demonstrates that funding for fencing would be appropriate.

Do those various differing views inhibit fencing in Australia?

No, I don’t think it is inhibiting at all. I think you need to open up expression of them. The avenues to make those opinions known may be more difficult.

As I have said, limited resources need to be focused on in agreed areas and what the level of resources is going to be aimed at.

Do you have a view as to where those resources should be aimed?

My background has been with the juniors, but I have spent a fair amount of time with the seniors and international fencing. I look at other sports, and it is a competition with AFL, with soccer, with netball, with all the other sports. I am a teacher by vocation and I see people coming into year 7 and year 8 and their pathway for sports is already set. I look at some year 7 and year 8 students and I think to myself ‘gee, I could make you a fencer’ and they play football, cricket, athletics, netball; but they are locked in now. It is too late. We tend to get some quite good athletes at times, but they have gone down a different track. The majority of people who are interested in sport by that age there are other competing options. My son went to AusKick where you get 10 weeks tuition, you pay 10 dollars and he got a football for that. That is what fencing is competing against. The question is, is that where we should be putting our focus? Getting people in at the grass roots is important. Most of our top athletes have started in their twenties…it’s a bit late. It is very rare to get a person who is in athletics and say, now you are going to be a fencer and take them to an elite level. They have to start young and we need to get them when they are young, otherwise we are not going to have the material to work with later.

There is a program called ‘After Schools’ which is a sports program that I have been involved with and it involves getting out to schools. I know Pieter Leeuwenburgh has been involved in this.

The best place to start is to target the schools, where you can train the PE teachers and give them the gear to use, or preferably, send in your own people to teach fencing.

We need to get out there and to expose the students to the sport and the fencing environment and from there channel their interest to a local fencing club. I know clubs run junior programs, but kids have to come to the clubs. The best place to start is to target the schools, where you can train the PE teachers and give them the gear to use, or preferably, send in your own people to teach fencing. Because training tends to be after school and most people have jobs it is not always possible for them to do the training. Maybe, we need to focus on fencers who have retired, but who still participate in the sport. We should be looking at people who can come to PE sessions and run some fencing training for say, a period of three weeks. You make it a couple of dollars a week, so that the cost is at an absolute minimum, enough to cover some expenses. And those students who are interested can be given some contacts and away they go. We need to work as the other sports have done.

You can throw all the money you want at elite programs, but if you don’t have the talent to start with, then you are beating a dead horse. The good athletes are already gone. It is a numbers game. With the juniors, you might have twenty in a group with two having potential. But you have to have the numbers in the first place. With the clubs, you are relying on them walking through your door. But, get out there where they are.

You can throw all the money you want at elite programs, but if you don’t have the talent to start with, then you are beating a dead horse.

Recently, a program started in Geelong at Deakin University and got 20 to 30 on the first night. It was well advertised, but they were still the 18 to 20 years old. You want them from 8-year old and give them plastic swords and make it fun for them. We don’t do that and perhaps that is where our resources should be focused. Unlike fencing in Europe, because we don’t have the profile in Australia we have to work that much smarter.

The thing is that there is government money out there. For the program we are doing in Geelong, the ‘After Schools’ program gave us $2000 for plastic foils and sabres, and masks, so there is government money that can be tapped into. And again, Pieter Leeuwenburgh helped me with that. But we need more and we need to identify good people who can go out and do things with the young people.

People who are still working at 5.30, for them it is a bit late to get to the schools so we need to focus on people who have the available time. You could go to the next veteran’s competition and ask veteran fencers where they live and if they would be interested in doing a couple of weeks and linking it in with the local club. All you would have to do is the one-day basic coaching course. The time would be minimal and if the interest is there for the person coaching, they can be given another school.

It has been my experience that retired people are looking to volunteer and if you look at the number of people in the veteran fencing ranks, it is quite large. It just needs someone to co-ordinate it all. You need to head-hunt these people and interview them so that you get the right people who are dedicated to helping out youngsters.

Some of the people I am coaching here are university students and they may have some time to do this.

What do you see as the challenges facing fencing clubs to continue and maintain their success or survival?

It does relate back to what I have been discussing. It is the number of young people in the club. If you have got a club where the average age is 30 or thereabouts, you have got to get the young persons. If you have got a club member involved with a schools program you can link the club to the school. You can indicate to the schools that the club exists and that it runs beginners classes. You have got to keep people coming in the door. Fencing holds an innate fascination for children and we don’t take advantage of that.

Fencing holds an innate fascination for children and we don’t take advantage of that.

I end up teaching parents of the children as well because the parents come in and watch their children and they think “well I am here I may as well join in”. Even sometimes, the child stops, but the parent continues. Those parents that come in make great volunteers. They assist in fund raising, supporting competitions. So you need that influx of children because of the many benefits.

Fencing is still not out there. I still hear people say it is hard to find where fencing clubs are, although the internet has improved that situation.

I am not saying anything new. Some of it is already being done by people like Pieter and just needs to continue by tapping into retired people who have fenced, which is an avenue that hasn’t been used as much as it should be.

Given you are based in Geelong is there a problem of tyranny of distance for country regional clubs?

Geelong may not be a good example in that I am in Melbourne in 45 minutes. It is a distance issue rather than one of time. You are isolated in that you don’t get the variety of fencing whereas in Melbourne it is easier to get to more clubs. In Geelong it is hard to get over that barrier that you have to go to Melbourne to fence against more fencers because some people in regional areas have a mental block in traveling what they believe is a long distance.

You are only as good as the other person at the other end of the strip.

It comes back to my philosophy of fencing. I mainly do epee. I used to do all 3 weapons. But now, if I have 30 odd people in training, I have all 30 people training in epee because it means a fencer has 29 other people to fence. If I have 10 in foil, 10 in epee, 10 in sabre, it means you have only got 9 people to fence. You are only as good as the other person at the other end of the strip. You need to have as wide a variety as possible. Otherwise, if you fence the same 9 people, you know what they do. When you go to competition and you fence someone who has a different style, you are unable to adjust because you are locked into certain skills. I liken it to playing the same golf course all the time. You know what club to use on the various holes. Play on another course and it is a different matter. In fencing, you are only as good as your opposition and that is why you need that variety and depth in competition.

There is a need to ensure that fencers have the opportunity to fence with other clubs. It may be a financial thing but it would be good if you were a member of a club and also had reciprocal rights to fence at other clubs. However, it might be that clubs could not afford to have members of other clubs attending because of the limited number of strips that might be available.

What about the state of fencing in Geelong?

It’s healthy. I have got lots of juniors at the moment that are coming up to state and national level. It is a cycle. I had a number of years ago a strong group which means you have strong fencers whereas I have got that building up with a following of 60 or more. At one stage I had more than 100 fencing in Geelong. That’s a problem though, where you can get to a point where you have got too big a number that you can’t look after. I hit my 30^th year in coaching in Geelong. Started in 1984 and it has been a roller coaster of a ride.

What elements underpin a good fencing athlete?

They do need a level of ability. Dependent also on muscle fibre type, agility, flexibility…. all these things give a fencer an advantage and then you have the skills people develop, to think, to react and that is seen by a few people who have the ability to think and react incredibly well. They automatically know what to do against someone else; they just have that ability to understand the game. It is an ability that you can learn but some learn a lot quicker than others.

There is a need to have a sharp mind. Need to have dedication and by that I mean there must be a realistic dedication. You have got some people who train once a week and spend half the time talking because they are typical kids and then they think they will go to state or national comps. But I say to them ‘what sport do you think you can train once a week for and compete at a national level?’ Some kids, regrettably, don’t know what hard work is, but occasionally you get a person who understands the depth of dedication that is required. So the work ethic is an important one. It is a test of character. You can help as a coach, you can encourage it when you see it, but you get some people who take a long time to realise that, and then it can be too late. Dedication and perseverance are important.

I have seen a number of elite people over the years and a lot tend to be self-focused and I don’t mean that in a negative sense. You need to be selfish. Having said that, it is not everyone’s aim to be on the national team. Depends on where your emphasis is and recognise where you are and what you are after. I have people who just want to have some fun, enjoy the sport and the social side and the occasional competition. Others who are looking at the competitive level. As a coach, you need to cater for all.

Is there a marked difference between how the Europeans administer fencing compared to Australia? Have we got our act together structurally?

It still comes back to critical mass. It is back to people and people fencing the one weapon. I know Austria at one time said that it was not prepared to fund fencing other than for epee and as a result, I think at one stage they were ranked number four. Whereas we have a three-weapon policy which inevitably means we spread our funding and resources too wide. Smaller countries have done quite well in fencing and yet do not have as strong a sports culture as we do. So, is that something we can look at?

One thing I like about judo is that they have a grading system. I would like to see that introduced into fencing with levels that recognise skills achieved.

We don’t have a culture of fencing, but there are other sports in Australia which have done well. Judo, for instance. And they don’t exactly have a culture either, but have been successful in making the public aware of their sport. One thing I like about judo is that they have a grading system. I would like to see that introduced into fencing with levels that recognise skills achieved. In judo, they ‘have the coloured belts according to the level that has been achieved. With fencing you should reach a certain level before you compete. You can’t take someone with two weeks training and have them compete in a national competition, whereas if you take soccer, they could train and play for a few weeks and then go out on a field and play a game but with sports like judo and fencing where there is physical contact it takes a while. I have a school of about 20 and I have told them they will not go into competition. We will do two terms of training which is only six months and then the following year they will go into competitions. But what do they get for what they have learnt during the year. They should be given a level by a qualified coach in recognition of skills achieved and when they, say, reach Level C they can compete. Recognition could be by way of a certificate or a badge, which would be very little cost. It would be good if it were state and national recognised rather than it being a club specific one. That is good for within the club, but if you can give it more recognition than that, it would be good. In judo, they don’t even need to fight to gain the recognition; they just need to demonstrate they have acquired the required skills for that level. Again, it can be linked in with what I have discussed regarding schools participation.

When I first started fencing at school, it took us three days to get through the schools competition. That is how many kids were doing fencing in those days….and that’s where I came from, and so did a number others. That was just not private schools, the public schools also participated. However, in those days, we had non-electric foils, a shirt, a mask and maybe a glove, so it was financially affordable for schools. We need to now again make fencing more accessible and have an affiliation program with initial entry fees being very cheap (say, $2.00) and increasing as you go up the various levels. Having them registered through such a program means you have the ability to communicate with them through their email addresses and to keep in continuing contact. And we can then advise government of the type of numbers involved in fencing which is also important.

We need to now again make fencing more accessible and have an affiliation program with initial entry fees being very cheap (say, $2.00) and increasing as you go up the various levels.

You can give a person 10 weeks instruction in epee and put them into a competition and they will get hits. Also to electronics is cheaper such as the epee, the body-wire whereas foil tends to be a little more erratic. Epee electronics are easier to fix.

We have started up a schools program and we had an epee competition last year and we had 74 in one age group. We made it affordable and it is now financially viable and so you have coaches coming in to assist the program. In fact, we ended up having to cut off the number of registrations. It also enabled us to have expert back-up for any equipment failures. So, it shows that there is a demand. The potential is there.

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INTERVIEW with ROBERT Di PASQUALE

main rdp

The following is an interview with Robert Di Pasquale, Head Coach of Blacklords Fencing Club, conducted in November 2013. Blacklords Fencing Club was formed by Robert in 2000. Since that time, the Club has proven to be one of Australia’s premier foil clubs and in recent times has gained two new Level 1 coaches. Robert has the highest Level 3 as a coach and also possesses a Diploma of Fencing from the FIE.

Blacklords Fencing Club has been very successful in foil competition. What do you put that down to?

The techniques that we use, I believe, are a little bit more modern in our training, and we are old fashioned when it comes to the hard work.

I put it down to a combination of a couple of factors:

Hard work, obviously, with physical conditioning and training,

Talented athletes, which is quite a large proportion of our success, and

We have adopted a unique approach to the training as well. We don’t use conventional classical techniques, although we do initially start off with classical techniques. The techniques that we use, I believe, are a little bit more modern in our training, and we are old fashioned when it comes to the hard work.

So, you can put it down to probably three things -

Talented athletes;

Hard physical conditioning and training; and

A unique approach to the technical side.

Your Club appears to have a strong or complete focus on fencing with the foil. Why has the Club chosen to specialise in foil?

I am the Head coach of the Club and I decided to specialise in foil. I do not have anywhere near as much experience in the other two weapons, although I did compete with the other two weapons. I spend 95% of my time on foil. I know more about foil than I know about the other two weapons.

We can either be average in three weapons or good in one particular weapon. As a result, in my opinion, we actually have done very well in foil.

In this particular venue we are limited with time and space. We do not have this venue full time and it is rented for a fixed period of time so that I can only allocate a certain amount of time towards fencing. I chose to specialise in foil and so 95% of time is spent with this weapon. We can either be average in three weapons or good in one particular weapon. As a result, in my opinion, we actually have done very well in foil.

We are also doing well with the other weapons. Foil skills also transfer to epee and sabre in some ways. We have had more national epee champions than the other epee schools in Victoria. We have won National medals in all three weapons, and we currently have the Junior epee champion and have had so for a number of years

Is that because of the talent of the pool of athletes that you have?

Over the last three years we have had the best athletes in foil in Australia. In foil, 95% of foil titles have come from this club.

I am fortunate because, if I had lesser athletes, I don’t think the results would have been as high. Over the last three years we have had the best athletes in foil in Australia. In foil, 95% of foil titles have come from this club. We are talking only about Australian athletes, only one national title in the past 3 years has not gone to this club and that is in every age group. This year alone, we have picked up two of the three open competitions so far. The third was won by an Italian.

That success has been due to the fact that I have been lucky with the athletes that I have managed to bring into the Club.

What underpins a good athlete?

And of course you must enjoy the sport and the ability to think outside the square, and this is what my athletes all have. They drive each other further and further.

That is a hard question to answer.

Intelligence is a factor; an athletic ability is also a factor. and an ability to be able to think laterally.

They must have the drive to want to improve. And of course you must enjoy the sport and the ability to think outside the square, and this is what my athletes all have. They drive each other further and further.

With the athletes I have here at the moment, some have the ability to go to the absolute highest level with the right kind of guidance, and if they choose to do so, even to the Olympics. Next year, a number of our athletes will be going to the World Championships, which is the biggest event you can go to outside the Olympics.

Do fencers and coaches in Australia face specific problems in their endeavours to achieve success compared to say, in Europe?

European nations, Italy, for example, have money. There is more money involved in other countries than in Australia. In Australia its more pay your own way, and it makes it a challenge for athletes to have to pay for coaches, to pay for travel, entry fees. They pay for everything. There is more money in international countries.

What is the best approach towards marketing and promoting fencing in Australia?

In my opinion, marketing and promotion is non-existent in Australia, and almost non-existent in the world.

In my opinion, marketing and promotion is non-existent in Australia, and almost non-existent in the world. Fencing could be a lot bigger than it is. For example, I saw a good video for the last World Championships with a fencer carrying out different styles of sword fighting throughout the times right up to actually fighting a Jedi. It was an exciting video and we should do more things like this which makes people say I actually want to take up the sport. In Australia it is not promoted.

Promotion of fencing needs to take a leaf out of high profile sports in Australia, for example, Tennis is one of the most high profile individual sports in the world. Perhaps, get a sponsor, but you first need to get more interest.

In fencing it is an individual sport, still fighting as one on one. Use promotion like in Tennis and boxing. But everyone needs to be on the same page. The problem is we have conflict of personalities, conflict of ideas, conflict of interest, and In Australia that is a big issue.

What about the role of AFF in promoting fencing?

The AFF needs to show a greater leadership role. AFF is meant to look after Australian fencing overall, but they need to be a little bit more professional. In order to move forward we need an independent group of people who need to be paid. There is a need to spend money putting forward a media strategy. We can’t get volunteers to do it. We need to pay an independent professional group of people who know about marketing and promotion to put forward strategies and deliver on it. We are talking about a few million dollars here. It can’t be done with a few thousand dollars.

Most people who get into fencing don’t want to get out. Once you get people in and they feel they are part of an elite sport, the job is done.

Promotion of fencing through schools needs to be backed up by media and particularly with prime time television when kids come home from school. That way we can increase the profile of fencing and turn it into a main stream sport. Most people who get into fencing don’t want to get out. Once you get people in and they feel they are part of an elite sport, the job is done.

The other thing that needs to be done is that you have to get out of being an amateur fencing association and bring it up to a professional association. We must have athletes getting paid like in other sports such as tennis, then once this happens the sport becomes so much bigger and looks after itself. We must turn the few thousand fencers that we have in Australia into 100,000 or 200,000 fencers.

And that can’t be done by a coach, or a parent of an athlete, or an accountant. What you need are people who professionally know how to do it and then you stay out of their way. Don’t try to control them, because when you get people trying to control things who don’t know what they are doing, then it ends up being amateurish. Let the professional get on with it.

How do you rate the health of fencing in Australia?

On paper it is going forward and in theory it should be going forwards. Some of the ideas people came up with were kind of heading in the right direction, but it has now completely back flipped and it is not being handled properly. It could be a lot better than it is. I would not give it a very good score out of 10. I wouldn’t give it a very good score at all.

Many of the people running the show are not consulting with the key stakeholders. They are not consulting the athletes, coaches or managers of the club.

Many of the people running the show are not consulting with the key stakeholders. They are not consulting the athletes, coaches or managers of the club. Personally, I have not been consulted and I know of other coaches who have not been consulted. They need to get feedback. Clubs and coaches need to be looked after. And that is not happening. Making things harder for the clubs and coaches is the worst thing you can do for fencing.

If everything stays the same and nothing changes, what is the survival rate of fencing clubs likely to be in the future?

If everything stays as it is, fencing will continue to stay exactly as it is now, and will remain as an amateurish sport in Australia; and you are going to have similar results forever.

If everything stays as it is, fencing will continue to stay exactly as it is now, and will remain as an amateurish sport in Australia; and you are going to have similar results forever. If people are happy with that, then that is what it is. Many sports would be in a similar situation too. It is just not only fencing. You have got other sports where Australia doesn’t get the results. If we want to improve, the people who have put themselves into positions to make a difference need to start listening to other peoples’ ideas that have been around the sport for 20 or 30 years.

Do you think we can convince the federal government to put more money into fencing? Is that possible?

Yes and No.

Get something that looks good first and then ask the Federal Government for money.

If we go to government now, they will say, we gave you some money because we felt sorry for you, but why should we give you any more to put into what we see as a dead sport.

We need to spend money to get more money. We should allocate some money from competition events and put it into promotion, in my opinion, on prime time TV. Once that happens then you can go to the Government and show that fencing is a professional sport worthy of funding.

During your long period of participation in the sport of fencing, what have been some of the significant trends that have had an impact upon fencing in Australia?

A couple of years ago, I had one of my athletes ranked number 1 in the national competition, but because he could not afford to pay the required amount of money he was not part of the AFT, which is wrong.

The AFT (Australian Fencing Team) concept was one game-changer. To join the AFT you need to pay $5,000. Most people disagree with the concept of APT. The main reason why people disagree is that in the past it was the best people who went to championships. However, using the world championships as an example, you can now pay your way to get into the championships and you might not even be ranked in the top 10 in Australia and yet someone who is ranked number one won’t get in because they are not on the AFT. A couple of years ago, I had one of my athletes ranked number 1 in the national competition, but because he could not afford to pay the required amount of money he was not part of the AFT, which is wrong. And that can happen to anyone. The AFT must ensure that the best person goes to the World championships and to all competitions.

The AFT must ensure that the best person must be picked on results.

The idea of AFT was to make the sport more professional by people committing to certain requirement such as the amount of lessons per week, going to competitions and training, and there are certain elements of that that might sound as though it is going in the right direction. But what the AFT concept does is get rid of people who are naturally talented but can’t afford the money to get onto AFT. Instead, the money must go to training and training camps. For serious competition, the team must be picked on results.

One of the other changes that have occurred is the attempt to unite fencing as a whole in Australia through the implementation of national and assistant national coaches. This is not a bad thing, but it needs to be handled properly and in a way that people want to come on board. Coaches must have confidence or they will go their separate ways. Again coaches and clubs must be looked after if they want people to jump on board with programs.

What about positive trends?

Many sports at the highest level have implemented a video system so why not have a fencing video system, which is highly important in fencing.

No. I had some ideas which weren’t really listened to and I am sure other people have had the same ideas. But there is a lack of listening to people who know most about fencing, coaches and to the athletes because they know what is happening and it is what they do.

I had a suggestion that we should bring about a video system in Australia similar to what occurs at the Olympics and at the World championships with athletes contesting a referee’s decision through a video system. This is particularly important for foil and sabre. It helps both the referee and the athlete and makes things more professional. Referees don’t like to make mistakes. Many sports at the highest level have implemented a video system so why not have a fencing video system, which is highly important in fencing. If you think refereeing in tennis is difficult, fencing is far more difficult.

Finally, from what you have been saying, ‘communication’s is a vital key element?

Yes, but you have got to have the right people to do the job. You must have professional people who are paid. They don’t need to have a background in fencing. I know this requires a lot of money but this can be found through sponsorships and through competition entry fees and affiliations fees and then make sure, that we spend the money in the right way.

Fencing in Australia could be as big as tennis if handled correctly.

AFF’s agenda should be to make the sport of fencing as big as tennis. Fencing in Australia could be as big as tennis if handled correctly. We are talking about sword fencing! The sport of fencing is so good a concept and has so much future potential.

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